tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093379.post2452512498114051801..comments2023-11-02T15:47:29.001+00:00Comments on particleblog: Aggregation vs Portals: Where Microsoft is going wrong with Xbox LiveTadhghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14763670950211297013noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093379.post-70991265464785712112008-06-09T09:35:00.000+00:002008-06-09T09:35:00.000+00:00What exactly is the XBLA deal for developers? How ...What exactly is the XBLA deal for developers? How much of a slice do MS take from game sales?Gynax Gallenorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15564637914367819691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093379.post-12820120251726918752008-06-07T14:43:00.000+00:002008-06-07T14:43:00.000+00:00Bruce:Email reply sent. TadhgBruce:<BR/><BR/>Email reply sent. <BR/><BR/>TadhgTadhghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14763670950211297013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093379.post-1563618451585713162008-05-31T03:02:00.000+00:002008-05-31T03:02:00.000+00:00Okay Pixelante, if you have previously bought a ga...Okay Pixelante, if you have previously bought a game before, you will <B>always</B> be able to download it through your gamertag download history.<BR/><BR/>So your statement that they will never be able to download it again is blatantly wrong.<BR/><BR/>Yes there are people who like those games, one of them being a person involved in this at Microsoft (Aaron Greenberg), as stated in the latest Major Nelson blogcast (Show #280).<BR/><BR/>If I may point you, and hopefully anyone else who reads all of this and goes on to comment:<BR/><A HREF="http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2008/05/24/559300.aspx" REL="nofollow">http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2008/05/24/559300.aspx</A><BR/><BR/>Take special note of the following area:<BR/><I>Q: If I bought a game, and deleted it, can I redownload it even if it's been delisted?<BR/>A: Yes, you can. Go to Download History under the Account Management section of marketplace (far left blade).</I><BR/><BR/>Now also, 61:30 into the blogcast they state that friend referrals for the game will still work, so you can still get the game if a friend has it and tells you about it over the Xbox.<BR/><BR/>Sure a bit of extra effort, but it means that the game can still be bought and played.<BR/><BR/>Robin, I see what you mean, and you make a good point about the casual games sector.<BR/>I just wonder if enough people will start using the PC based service to justify its implementation and maintenance cost.<BR/>I am sure there would be some who would use the opportunity to buy an arcade game online and have it ready, however many I feel would like to keep the experience on the console, as flawed as it is.<BR/><BR/>However there are flaws in many interfaces, take Blogger for example. I believe that the comment display interface is absolutely terrible. I have screen space, so use it.<BR/>It looks to be about 800 pixels across, and that would be fine if the comment input box was not taking up 1/2 of those pixels.<BR/>As a result maybe only 5 words fit across the space, and so readability becomes an issue.<BR/><BR/>To link this with Arcade, I have to scroll down a lot to find a comment I am looking for.Chr0n1xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03234723061961548946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093379.post-13124082025334434412008-05-30T16:38:00.000+00:002008-05-30T16:38:00.000+00:00Exactly what made my remake (NOT A PORT) of Marath...Exactly what made my remake (NOT A PORT) of Marathon bad. Was is the total built from scratch 3D engine, the true 8 player networking for a game that didn't support it? The addition of a new game mode? The extra multiplayer options or the extreme attention to detail to recreate the original?<BR/><BR/>I just want to know what makes our game unplayable? Was it using the same acceleration curve and formulas that Bungie used for Halo 2 so the game controls the same? Was is the careful addition of "Soft Lock" aim assist or addition of Marathon inspired target reticules? <BR/><BR/>Please feel free to let me know why you decided to arbitrarily attack our game. bruce at freeverse dot comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093379.post-35588257484559174472008-05-30T15:01:00.000+00:002008-05-30T15:01:00.000+00:00"3. Don't de-list content. Instead provide better ..."3. Don't de-list content. Instead provide better filtering tools on the Xbox's portal.<BR/><BR/>4. Provide a simple means for users to rate games directly rather than relying on professional reviewers. Tie this in with the filtering tools in suggestion #3."<BR/><BR/>I couldn't agree with you more on this.<BR/><BR/>I think it's very boneheaded to simply de-list the content. There ARE people who actually like some of those games. They will no longer be able to download them at all.<BR/><BR/>This wouldn't even be a problem if the XBL Marketplace user interface was halfway decent. There are so many things wrong with it I don't know even where to begin. It is, however, faster to use than PSN Store though, which I suppose is a good thing. Starting downloads is also done better than PSN Store does it.<BR/><BR/>My number one gripe about the user interface is that the releases don't have the release date on them. You have NO idea whatsoever which releases are new and which aren't, if you're browsing the content anywhere else than in the "New Arrivals" section.Pixelantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02979102341884578316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093379.post-87714018437465471202008-05-27T19:31:00.000+00:002008-05-27T19:31:00.000+00:00@ chr0n1x: I didn't mean to cause offence, I was j...@ chr0n1x: I didn't mean to cause offence, I was just making a dig about the weak excuses that companies often give when they have a less PR-friendly reason for doing something.<BR/><BR/>The idea that offering some functionality through the web (as another option rather than a replacement for the existing interface) would be confusing or would weaken the platform is totally meritless. Look at the casual games sector on the PC, where publishers are able to get large numbers of people who barely use PCs for anything more complicated than email and solitaire to make online purchases.<BR/><BR/>By the way, more people are playing games on PCs (taking the full sweep of everything from free Flash games, downloadable casual games, social virtual worlds, MMOs and boxed product) than consoles, if only because of there is no need to buy specialised hardware for most of those.<BR/><BR/>I think the OP suggested it would be sound a 'death knell' because it would drive away developers rather than consumers directly. It's a broken system that's only going to get worse over time unless they do something about it, but I agree that a complete overhaul could simply be too expensive to be worth their while.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093379.post-38061204025212515802008-05-27T07:19:00.000+00:002008-05-27T07:19:00.000+00:00I agree that Microsoft shouldn't delist.But, a cou...I agree that Microsoft shouldn't delist.<BR/><BR/>But, a couple of points. <BR/><BR/>#1) It does cost something to distrubute the demos. I don't know how much but manifestogames claims something like $1 per GB. So, a 100GB game DLed 20 times costs $2. If the conversion rate is 6% that's about $2 out of whatever the sale is worth.<BR/><BR/>#2) While I agree it would be nice if you could buy from the net, personally I want to buy and browse on the console. Sony has taken some effort to make the browsing better. I'm not saying they have it right, I'm just saying there's a TON Microsoft could do to make it better.<BR/><BR/>They could ditch the crappy text lists for something much flashier. They could fix the really bad response times. Gees, downloading 20 lines of text can take 5-10 seconds. Why is no other thing on that net that slow? They could download the store browsing content in the background so that when you went to the store all of the titles, images etc were instantly available. I'm sure there's more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093379.post-14319502900337468492008-05-27T00:30:00.000+00:002008-05-27T00:30:00.000+00:00re: The last comment's section on a web frontend.F...re: The last comment's section on a web frontend.<BR/><BR/>For one thing, I would be quite happy to use a web frontend to acquire games, it does make it easier for me.<BR/><BR/>I love how you just decided to twist my words there, funny how that is typical marketing.<BR/><BR/>I am a consumer at most. A student who plays and buys the games, and in no way sells them. The most I do on the buisness side is develop hobby games.<BR/><BR/>I stated that consoles are designed to work on their own and are designed to run with minimal fuss. That is why they have a broader appeal than PC gaming and can attract the demographics that previously would not even consider playing video games.<BR/><BR/>If you consider that excluding new games, anyone who buys an XBLA game knows what they want to purchase and will go straight for it, having in depth filtering items would mostly go to waste. New games are quick easily found in the conveniently labeled "New games" section, and aside from that there is an extensive genre list and "hits" list for helping to find what you want.<BR/><BR/>If you need to go searching, you will know what you want, and can find it through there.<BR/><BR/>Most games are sold upon release, its a simple fact shown by the figures. The rest are popular games that have heavy word of mouth advertising, through which the name and genre of the game is known and can be found.<BR/><BR/>This is why I do not think it will be a death knell to do this. For it to kill off the Xbox, this would need to 'push away' customers, which cannot happen from just delisting underperforming games.<BR/><BR/>Considering that noise about this announcement dropped to low levels only days after this announcement means it was a surprise, but it has not angered current customers enough for it to be a 'death knell'.<BR/><BR/>My point is that this is <B>not</B> going to be a 'death knell' for the Xbox, especially since they are just delisting some underperforming games.<BR/><BR/>Most people like to purchase an arcade title and then play it as soon as it downloads. They have a title in mind and they go for it. There are not too many who sit and browse through the offering to find something to play. If they want to do that, every Arcade game is already listed on www.xbox.com and they can spend plenty of time there finding one to purchase. <BR/>Sure the ease of just being able to click 'Buy' once you find a game you want, but the amount of people who would use this option in this way does not make up for the cost of implementing the service.<BR/><BR/>To completely change a system mid-life is not only costly but also confusing for much of the Xbox install base. I asked friends and family who owned an xbox if they would like a major overhaul of the XBLM system, and most said no.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps in the next iteration of Xbox Live it can change, but to change an existing system mid-life would be a huge risk for Microsoft.<BR/><BR/>From a development standpoint, the costs of creation, QA, and PR combined with the strong potential risk for a loss of customers makes the idea of making a drastic change obviously unappealing.Chr0n1xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03234723061961548946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093379.post-89835438708162828222008-05-26T17:48:00.000+00:002008-05-26T17:48:00.000+00:00This news gives further evidence if any were neede...This news gives further evidence if any were needed that the people running XBLA are completely oblivious to how successful online distribution catalogues have been built elsewhere.<BR/><BR/>It has already been pointed out that the conversion rate criteria is broken, and will kill off games that don't have totally familiar, transparent gameplay. The scoring criteria will be just as fatal for games that don't fit the specialist press's view of the Xbox audience. Neither test will accurately determine the quality of a game or whether there is demand for it. It also seems highly likely that some games (first party ones, and the highly recognisable retro remakes) will be granted immunity.<BR/><BR/>The real solution would be to fix the catalogue interface, pushing highly-rated (by users, not GameRankings) games and relevant titles based on the user's past purchases to the top of the deck. A deep catalogue (able to serve up half a dozen games of the same ilk, regardless of age or popularity) is always better than a limited, transient one.<BR/><BR/>Regarding the portal vs. aggregator model, ideally they should be aiming purely for the latter, but the limitations of the interface and the amount of time investment demanded of the user would make this impractical. Even in a web environment there is a strong argument for using some portal mechanics. (I came to the same conclusion that they need to offer a web frontend, but suspect that there is some absurd marketing-driven policy preventing them from doing this. In fact you can see some of this consumer-hostile marketing guff - "PCs are too hard, choice is confusing" - in the comment above.)<BR/><BR/>Throttling releases isn't strictly a necessity, but it is advantageous for publishers if it's handled correctly, as it ensures every game gets some initial attention. 'Catalogue management' as practiced by XBLA is pure idiocy, and I know for a fact that this has resulted in better games than ones already on the system being rejected. The only management they need to do is to make sure that they're not releasing six racing games (or whatever) in the same week, not setting arbitrary limits to the size of categories.<BR/><BR/>I don't think you're exaggerating at all when you say this could be the death knell for XBLA. Everyone is telling them what's wrong and how to fix it, but the mindset that they know what's best for the industry is too deeply entrenched.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6093379.post-5312011803682619752008-05-25T13:31:00.000+00:002008-05-25T13:31:00.000+00:00You make some interesting points. I believe that i...You make some interesting points. I believe that it is too late in the development cycle to make a drastic change to the way XBLA games are marketed and sold, however doing something to ease the stress in finding the game you want to download is possible, and is being done.<BR/><BR/>Firstly a note, delisting is simply the removal of the game from the list of games you can <B>buy</B>. If you have previously bought the game you can redownload it from your Download History, which is stated in many places online, and mentioned by MajorNelson. So if you already have the game, then you can always redownload it.<BR/><BR/>I will agree with you partly where you say that Microsoft should offer a browsing alternative to the console. This is partly offered by the Xbox website, with its browsable game list and descriptions. The only thing it is missing is the ability to pre-purchase the game on there and have it download when you turn on your system.<BR/><BR/>However I would say that Microsoft designed the console to be self-sufficient. After all, the console is marketed and considered a gaming platform for everyone, compared to the PC which is commonly seen as the platform for those who know their ways around computers. (And with the amount of tweaking needed these days to make a game playable, that is completely justified.)<BR/><BR/>So if most people are going to buy their games at their consoles, there is no justification to implementing a purchase system online that ties into the console.<BR/><BR/>To me, Death Knell is a rather strong term and an overreaction. For one thing, to be delisted the game cannnot be selling well. Now even if the reviewers give the game superb reviews due to shady tactics, this does not mean the gaming community will agree. Word of mouth is a much better advertising tool than reviews, and if word of mouth is bad, the game will not sell well. The game has 6 months to prove it actually is good, otherwise it is off the listing. A listing which is growing by at least a game a week.<BR/><BR/>A console portal has to be simple, with only a handful of <I>proper</I> genres existing in gaming, even categorising by genres will leave you with large lists. (I say proper because a 'Tactical Real-Time FPS/RTS Hybrid' is too exclusive to sort by, and pointless to implement in the console system.)<BR/><BR/>This system has been around for years now and XBLA still enjoys a healthy market majority. If Microsoft was ever going to lose customers, it certainly is not going to be now, when the user experience is improved.<BR/><BR/>Whether Sony or Nintendo's offerings will overpower XBLA, that is a different story, and it certainly will not be caused by simply delisting underperforming games.<BR/>Microsoft can offer developers a large install base, a strong brand name, and a high attach rate. For the consumer this means that their favourite games will be coming to a system they have and know, and delisting underperforming games will help to improve quality as the incentive is created to actually make a good game, and not pump out terrible remakes for cash.<BR/><BR/>Remember, conversion rate is one of the criteria, and that is user decided, not review decided.<BR/><BR/>As for your other points, many of them hold merit and I would agree with a fair few of them. However redesigning the Xbox Live experience would be the real death knell for the Xbox.<BR/><BR/>Implementing them in the new system would be a smarter choice and with hints of the development of a new Xbox Live system (and console) out there already, this could be the case.Chr0n1xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03234723061961548946noreply@blogger.com